Matthew Ward is an icon of Christian music. A pioneer of the genre, first known as Jesus Music, he is one of the reasons that you are sitting here surfing this website right now. Starting out in 1971, singing with his sisters in the groundbreaking group, Second Chapter of Acts, his rich, undulating voice is unparalleled.
Recently, NewReleaseTuesday.com's Lauren Kleist had an opportunity to catch up with Ward and talk to him about his history, his present, and what he has planned for the future. The conversation was full of laughs and insight and Matthew was one of the friendliest, most easy-going, and funniest artists we've been able to talk to. Matthew had a lot of interesting, deep thoughts to share. In fact, he had so much to say, that NRT has decided to feature this interview in two parts.
Welcome to NewReleaseTuesday.com, Matthew. Thank you for taking the time to chat with us today.
Absolutely. It’s my pleasure.
So, you’re celebrating forty years in Christian music. You must have been pretty young when you started.
I was just a whippersnapper. The first thing that I ever did was for MGM Records. It was a song called “Jesus Is”, and it was recorded on my thirteenth birthday. That was literally the first recording that the Second Chapter of Acts ever did--forty years ago this past February.
Wow. That’s pretty cool. Time really flies I would think, though. It probably doesn’t seem to you like it’s been forty years.
Well, sometimes time flies and sometimes it just doesn’t go fast enough. The old adage is that it always flies when you’re having a great time, which I think is totally true. Sometimes it’s like, Wow. How could that weekend be over? That was so much fun.
That’s true! So, you’ve decided to remake “Easter Song” to mark this special fortieth anniversary event. Why this particular song? Can you tell us a little bit about its history?
Sure, I can tell you a little bit about it. For those of you who don’t know it, I used to be in a group called The Second Chapter of Acts. My sister, Annie Herring, wrote about ninety-five percent of our music, and the most popular song that she had ever written was a song called “Easter Song”. Of course, we have some other popular ones as well--”Mansion Builder”, “Rejoice”, and so on--but that particular song, “Easter Song”, was really early on in our musical endeavor. It was on our first release that we did, and that song actually ended up in hymnals and all kinds of song books. I was talking to a friend of mine the other day who said it’s either in the top ten or top five of the all-time most popular contemporary Christian songs.
So I thought, since my fortieth anniversary is a pretty big deal, I might as well do our biggest deal song. The other side of that, and the intimidating thing about that is--and I tell friends this because it was such a popular song with the group, and it got a lot of radio play back in the day-- that I was a little intimidated doing it because it’s kind of like putting chrome on the Arc of the Covenant. That one’s been done and you’re going to redo it. Okay, that’s interesting.
So I decided to take a little different approach with the arrangement, and I think it’s pretty cool. I sent some people WAV files of it just to let them listen to it--different execs that I know and different friends--and they all loved it. I’m excited about that, and it
just recently hit iTunes on April 1st.
Well I‘ve heard good things about it, so I can’t wait to get it.
Second Chapter of Acts was an integral part of Jesus music/contemporary Christian music history, but some of our younger readers, and those new to Christian music, may not be familiar with the group. How did you and your sisters, Annie [Herring] and Nelly [Greison], start singing together? What was it like being a pioneer in the genre?
Well, we never intended to have a group. That kind of came out of nowhere, in a sense. We really got together because of the death of both of our parents. I lost my mom when I was ten years old and my dad when I was twelve. I’m the youngest of nine kids, and there were still four of us siblings living at home that needed a place to live. My older sister, Annie, and her husband, Buck, took Nelly and me in, and my two other brothers went to stay with an older brother in Sacramento, which is where we lived at the time.
So, we moved down to Los Angeles with Buck and Annie. They took us in, and they were basically newlyweds themselves. They had been married less than a year and a half, I think, and all of a sudden they had a twelve-year-old and a fourteen-year-old dumped into their laps. That had to be something; I can’t even imagine it. So, they became our parents. One day, my brother-in-law, Buck, bought my sister [Annie] an upright piano and she started to teach herself how to play.
After we settled in there, Nelly and I started school.We’d come home after school, and my sister would be sitting there at her little piano, rocking back and forth playing her little ditties, and the Lord really started to teach her how to play the piano. That’s the only way I can put it because she never had lessons or anything. She just kind of self taught, if you will, and she would say to us, “Hey, I’ve got this little song idea. What do you think?” And she’d start playing it, and we’d pull up chairs and we’d listen. We’d say, “Yeah, that’s pretty cool.” Next thing you know, Nelly and I just started singing with her. It was never, “You do the tenor part and you do the alto part and I will do...” We just started singing, and it came so naturally.
So we’d sing together and then, after a while, Annie started getting a few more songs. She got four or five songs that we would sing with her, and a friend of ours heard us and said, “Hey, would you guys come and sing at our coffee house?” Now, this was right in the beginnings of what was called “The Jesus Movement” on the West Coast back in 1971 and 1972. Then somebody asked us if we’d sing at their church and we said, “Okay.” So, we went down in their basement and we sang our four songs and didn’t say a word because we were scared to death, and everyone thought it was kind of cool. I guess they didn’t know what to think. They had never heard anything like it before.
After that, one thing led to another. We started going to a church out in Los Angeles that Pat Boone was attending. My brother-in-law, Buck, was a sound engineer and a producer, and he started working with Pat in the studio. Pat heard us sing, and he got us a deal with MGM Records. He helped us with that, but it didn’t work out so great. It’s a long story, but we ended up going to Myrrh Records, which was a division of Word Records in Waco, Texas. We got with Billy Ray Hearn, who is the guy that started Sparrow Records. Kind of an interesting little side note is that Annie was actually the first artist to release an album on Sparrow. Most people don’t realize that. Anyway, that’s kind of how we got started.
Back in our early days, we met Barry McGuire, who was known for doing a song called “Eve of Destruction”, which was very big in the late 1960’s. He also sang with New Christy Minstrels and was in the Broadway production of Hair, back in the day. He had been in some movies, as well, so he had some notoriety, and he had become a Christian. We worked on Barry’s first solo album, and that was really our first tool. We went out with him, and that’s really where we got our start. How was that for a mouthful?
I love it. I think it’s really interesting and a lot of the people that come to NRT don’t know that and don’t realize the rich history of Second Chapter of Acts and Christian music in general. I think it’s impressive that you were actually part of starting a whole genre of music, and look what’s happened since! It’s been 40 years, and look how far it’s come.
It’s definitely interesting. I think that we would have been so intimidated if we’d known from the beginning what we were getting involved in. We probably wouldn’t have done it. We’d have been too scared. We were just three insecure, frightened kids, and God decided to use us anyway.
So, your vocal talent came naturally to you then? You didn’t have any lessons either--you or Nelly?
No, we never had any lessons.
That’s amazing. It’s obvious that God had a plan because He just dropped that talent on all of you. It’s simply mind-boggling.
I think it’s great because God knew I was probably too lazy to do anything else. That’s actually not true, but I like to say that because it’s funny.
Back in 1984, Donna Summer released a single called “Love Has a Mind of Its Own”, which reached number seventy on the Billboard Hot 100. You sang that duet with her, and I remember, back then, that I was amused that they referred to you as “newcomer, Matthew Ward.” How did that recording come about and, at the time, were you planning on trying to move your career in a more mainstream direction?
I’ll try to answer both of those parts. First of all, I met Donna through her producer, Michael Omartian, who was a very dear friend of our family and our group. He was very instrumental in our early production. He did all of our strings arrangements and horn arrangements. He’s probably one of the most talented musicians I’ve ever met, and he was producing Donna at the time. He knew that I could sing, and he thought, This would be a kick in the pants to get Matt to do something with her. I think she would be just blown away to hear this kid sing.
So I went to the studio and had a blast with Donna. They were doing some editing, and we weren’t really ready to sing, so she took me out shopping. We went and looked at shoes, and it was so funny. She’s really a lot of fun and a wonderful person. We went all over--all of these hoity-toity shops in LA I think that the only thing I bought was a pair of shoes because they were something I could actually afford. It was fun hanging out with her and getting to know her, and then we went back to the studio and sang with her sisters on a couple of songs on the project as well. But doing the duet was cool. It was fun. As a matter of fact, Donna and I were scheduled to do The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson. I flew out to LA to do it with her, but she came down with laryngitis, so we had to cancel it. That was kind of a drag because I was looking forward to doing that.
As far as that song being a stepping stone to get into mainstream or to change what I was doing, I didn’t look at it that way. It was just something fun to do, and I loved her and she was a believer, so I had no qualms doing it. It wasn’t like I was doing a duet with Ozzy Osbourne. It was pretty straight up stuff, and I had a blast doing it. To me, it was just another thing to do in music. It wasn’t necessarily a sign or an attempt to break into a different market. That’s not how I was looking at it at all.
Second Chapter retired as a group in 1988. Why did you stop?
L Photo: Jesse Cosio (back row right) and Eddie Overstreet (back row left)
Original members of Second Chapter Of Acts in its infancy
There were several reasons. There were some logistical reasons. My sister Nelly’s boys were getting to be a bit older, and trying to school them on the road was really not an option. They didn’t want to do that. There were other extenuating circumstances as well--nothing bad. It just seemed like the right time to quit, so we prayed about it and really felt like the Lord wanted us to quit. His using us that way was over, which was sad for us.
I love that I can tell people that because, a lot of times, groups quit because they’re not making it, or they have strife, or they’re fighting. So they break up. It’s either one reason or the other. It’s usually financial or infrastructure issues. But that was not the case with our group. We’d just had the most popular year, ever. We were making money for the first time, ever.--actually making some real money and thinking, Wow, we could do this for a living.
But we quit that year. We had our second hymn album, Toward Eternity, come out. We had just released Far Away Places, which was doing well, and we had a number one song off of that. Things were going great, but we just knew in our hearts that we were done.
So, that’s why it’s always difficult. Every third question on Facebook is, “Are you guys going to do a reunion tour?”
How did you know that was one of the questions I was going to ask you?
Because it’s everybody’s question. Somebody took a poll, years ago: Of all the Christian groups, who would you most like to see do a reunion concert? Of course, Second Chapter of Acts was number one, which I thought was kind of nice and sweet, but that point is moot. It’s not as if, “The people have spoken, therefore...” because it wasn’t based on that to begin with. But I thought that was sweet.
Then you would never consider doing it--the three of you--or doing an album again?
I don’t think that Nelly is all that interested in doing it, but I considered some interesting options a few years ago. My oldest daughter, Megan went up with me to Buck and Annie’s place a few years back. They live about seven hours from where I live in Colorado, and [Annie, Megan, and I] sat around the piano and sang. We had this idea of maybe just doing a few concerts, and it would still be family and all. Well, you should have heard it with my daughter, Megan, singing! Oh my gosh! It was scary good!
Did she inherit your vocal cords?
Yes. She can sing and, when she sings, it’s very sweet. While my voice has a more airy, edgy, R&B kind of vibe, hers is definitely more of a folksy kind of thing. So, it really works well in the absence of what Nelly’s voice would take up. Hers took up that space and more. So, it actually sounded quite good. We thought about it and talked about it a lot and looked at what it would take to organize this reunion of sorts. We prayed about it, and I wasn’t getting a “No” from God, but I wasn’t getting a “Yes,” either. I finally called Buck one day, and I said, “You know, on something this big, an absence of a no is not going to cut it. I will need the presence of a yes.” He told me that he understood where I was coming from, so we shelved it. That’s about as close as we’ve come to doing anything resembling a reunion.
How are Annie and Nelly doing these days?
They’re doing well. I just saw Annie the other day. It’s funny. Buck and Annie live seven hours from me, and I actually see them more often than I do Nelly, who only lives about a mile from me. Buck and Annie are doing well. Annie just recorded an instrumental record with Michael Omartian in Nashville. It’s out now and it’s awesome!
I love her. I have to look into that because I love Annie’s music.
It’s really, really cool.
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