After months of non-stop COVID news, lockdowns, and quarantines, it felt like the nation exploded to life in a matter of days, but not in a way any of us were expecting. The murder of George Floyd in May, a black man that died after a brutal encounter with a white policeman, set off a firestorm of activism, reignited passionate calls for police reform and race relations, and has quickly spread to political posturing from both sides that continues today. The response from the Black community, and the nation at large, has been swift and building. The Breonna Taylor case has yet to be resolved and there are a variety of opinions and emotions regarding the Jacob Blake shooting.
At NewReleaseToday, we have always stood for supporting artists from all nationalities, male and female, and while this topic has not grown from any music corner, it is impacting our Black artists and friends in the community, along with those on our staff who have been painfully impacted.
So we wanted to just have a conversation with a goal not to solve problems, not to provide commentary on what we're seeing, but simply to sit down, and take time to listen to each other, engage and talk. We've found many times, in many situations, that through having thought out conversations, away from the rapid-fire medium of social media, with people who look different and come from different corners, is vastly missing from our day-to-day. We all need more of this.
NRT's founder, Kevin McNeese, and NRT contributor, Dwayne Lacy took some time to connect on these topics and thoughts.
Kevin: First, thanks so much for being willing to have this conversation with me, Dwayne. We've been friends for a number of years now and you've always been a passionate and positive voice in my life on issues surrounding race. I'm looking forward to talking about what's going on in our country and in our own corners.
Dwayne: I appreciate your being willing to have this conversation as well. I have been sitting on so many thoughts and emotions since Trayvon Martin's death in 2012. I have had many conversations with people concerning race and generalizations so it's important to me to keep showing up for these conversations.
Kevin: Let's set the stage. I'm a white guy, mid-40's living in Idaho–not a very culturally diverse region of the States. You're a black man, 40's, living in Texas–a richly diverse area. I've learned a lot in the past couple of years listening to stories of Black men and women growing up and it's made me realize that I have no idea what it's like to grow up being judged for the color of my skin. Would you be willing to share a few stories that may have shaped your view of racism growing up?
Dwayne: Yes, of course. I was born in the Third Ward part of Houston, but I was raised in Southwest Houston. During my childhood, my neighborhood was very racially diverse. That was a blessing. There were three white families that lived on my street who really shaped my view and understanding that not all people who are white are racist. My family really treated our neighbors like family and the neighbors did the same for us. I was also very close to the Indian family who lived across the street from me. That helped me see value in all.
However, I was introduced to racism early on in my life. In second, or third grade, a young man (whose name I will always remember), would tell me frequently that he was having a birthday party or sleepover, but he would not invite me because I was black.
In fifth grade, I remember a kid who called me a "jigaboo" which was one of the worst racist and derogatory comments for black people.
In seventh grade, I was called the n-word by a white student who was one grade under me. I punched him in the mouth and that never happened again. That was NOT the way to handle things.
Most of the teasing that I endured in middle and high school came from people who were black. Yet in high school, I heard all the racist terms and names. I remember my senior year, a white student who I liked and respected, wanted to explain to me the difference between being a black person and a "nigger." I guess it was supposed to make me feel better that he deemed me just a "black person."
Even though those experiences made me angry, I was still proud to be a black young man who loved and sought diversity, wanting to fight racism and love God.
Kevin: I have yet to have a conversation with a Black man or woman who doesn't have similar stories, and it pains me to hear them. We all need to understand these moments and encounters are incredibly jarring, painful, and confusing and can stay with a person for decades while truly shaping their worldview
First, I'm sorry for these encounters, Dwayne. Second, these things can really be the kindle for a life of bitterness, anger, and resentment. I feel like a lot of that kindling has been ignited in our nation, but I'm also seeing a lot of compassion and solidarity, calls for true unity and progression. Beyond the riots and sections of violence that will always dominate the news headlines, are you seeing that and sensing that well?
Dwayne: Yes I am! It was crazy what would happen if a white Christian evangelical would speak up before Ahmad Arbury's death. They would get ridiculed and shamed for speaking about injustice and anger overhearing several black people being killed while unarmed. Obviously, if you were black and Christian and you spoke up, you were dismissed, sometimes disowned, and labeled a racist and a race-baiter.
When Ahmad Arbury was killed, something different happened. I saw several white pastors, Christian artists, etc. who spoke up. They showed compassion and empathy more than I have EVER seen before. That touched me.
When George Floyd was killed, you saw an "explosion" of various races, nationalities, and nations saying that the life of black people mattered.
I promise you that I just want to matter as much as anyone else. I know I have several people who are white and love ME! They love Dwayne for being Dwayne and they have loved me in spite of my many flaws. I am so grateful.
That said, I've struggled with the absolute silence that many white Christians have towards race especially before Ahmaud Arbery was killed. I know people need to be allowed to have an opinion and articulate their opinions without being deemed racist. However, just flat out acting as if they do not see an issue is hurtful. Why do you think so many are so unwilling to acknowledge racism in our country?
Kevin: Well, I would say our current culture has not done a good job at facilitating the conversation. The way we all communicate with each other has drastically changed and clouded all of our views on everything–race is no different. Social media, Facebook messenger, text–all of these forms of communication are not designed for thought out conversations so sensitive topics like this that require in-depth conversation and listening literally can not take place.
Like you mentioned before, I've seen white men and women get ripped to shreds for speaking up and just saying the wrong thing. A few months ago, Pastor Louie Giglio, a man who has given his entire life to minister of so many nations and nationalities, and has fostered many conversations on race, said something very hurtful that he later apologized for and retracted. But the soundbite was attacked, distributed, and shamed.
What happened to educating without tearing someone down? What happened to encouraging people into the conversation who still might not get it right 100% of the time? I think we've forgotten how to truly honor each other in passionate support.
We're all shouting paragraph rants at each other and not taking the time to listen.
I think for me, at least, the Ahmad and George situations were horrific to watch. The response has been explosive at times and in pockets, but I think it gave me time to pause and listen, instead of fling my opinions and direct my rage at other areas. And in that listening, I have heard pain, horrible memories, and just a sense of "we just want to be heard." So I've had to challenge myself to listen and to speak up simply to say "I see you, I hear your challenges, I don't agree with what you're facing, and I love you."
I think that support has always been there. But I don't think it's been spoken because of fear of saying it wrong, getting attacked, being labeled a racist (who wants to be called that?), or just a simple lack of a proper forum to communicate in.
I'm glad you're seeing love spoken more and more. I hope more can join in on that.
Dwayne: I definitely agree with you that there are many who are white who really have a huge heart, but they do not want to be dismissed as racist. I believe this is where people in the black community, especially Christians who are black, have to be patient. If we are to continue to build this bridge, we must show grace. In addition, we have to have civil discourse and not automatically dismiss someone who has a different point of view concerning a controversial topic. Although it can be difficult, we have to try.
There's a lot of anger and injustice out there in the black community. So many actions have been excused or ignored that there is definitely a "rage against the machine" mentality. Black people have been told to forgive, which we should, for as long as I can remember, but it has to be seen on both sides.
We know that we must collectively call out hateful actions from anyone, racist diatribes, and even purveyors of racism. However, the destructive aspect is when people have no grace for a person that honestly slipped up or tried to be supportive and it came out incorrectly.
As a Christian, I cannot be so quick to cancel someone or something, because I know that I have been forgiven for MUCH. God has given me mercy and grace which I NEVER deserved and Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice for it all! It's something we all need to apply more in our conversations and situations.
Kevin: An abundance of grace is something our culture desperately needs right now. I personally need it, daily. Again, I believe this all stems from a decade-plus of moving our conversations to mediums that foster zero relationships or responsibility. Most of us would NEVER have the kind of conversations with people in front of us like we do online. So it breeds hate, contempt, and opinions that are never thought through, challenged or processed, and those filter quickly into our real-world environments. Generalizations are defining entire generations. The result: rage and cancellation. Neither of which considers the feelings, emotions, and lives of any other side. It's all a visceral response that bowls over any hope of working and coming together.
I believe we can do better. I believe our entire culture is more awake to these topics than ever before. And I believe, with God's help, more believers will step up and inject the love and hope that only the Gospel can bring to these discussions.
Thanks for showing up Dwayne, sharing your stories and perspectives. Here's to many more healthy conversations in the future and a world full of more compassion and listening.
Kevin McNeese started NRT in 2002 and has worked in the industry since 1999 in one form or another. He has been a fan of Christian music since 1991. Dwayne Lacy is a long time History teacher in Houston, Texas. He also has a passion for diversity in unity in music and in the church.
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